Gallery: Brand New Screenshots Of Sonic Origins, Out On Switch This June

Yep, that sure is a Sonic.

This game feel really expensive for what it is. Compared to the value of the md/g collection I feel like Sega kind of missed the mark on this one.

I'm beyond hyped. I've been dreaming of this treatment of these games for many years. Every substandard or lackluster re-selling of roms with poor emulation has made me sad, knowing new generations wouldn't be experiencing these classics in their best light and wouldn't see what the fuss is all about. With the 2nd movie, the 30th-anniversary concert, and now this game (and hopefully Frontiers), this is a very good time to be a Sonic fan. And considering what a terrible few years its been for everyone on the planet, my brain grabs anything that makes it happy with both hands gladly.

@XBontendo The MD collection was a good selection of quality games, but was roms on an emulator with tonnes of lag, sound issues etc. This is 4/5 games entirely rebuilt from the ground up in a modern engine with many extras, tweaks, and most importantly a tonne of unlockables, challenges, score attacks, time attacks, leaderboards, mirror modes, boss rushes, special stage only modes, etc. Sonic games' replay strength has always been in perfecting your runs so these kinds of things go a HUGE way to making it all so much better longevity for those who really care about this stuff and have played these games hundreds of time, and want to continue to do so in interesting new ways.

$44 to me seems like a bargain, especially compared to, say, $60 for 3 barely touched roms on Mario 3D All Stars. (Which by the way, I also happily bought as I love those games. I'm no Mario hater). But of course, your perspective will be dependent on how much you as an individual care about these specific games. From where I'm standing, this is going to be the definitive way to play 5 of my favourite games ever - which I bought in the 90s and have never stopped replaying since. But for someone only vaguely interested, maybe a Megadrive rom pack (or NSO expansion pack) gives better variety to dip in and out of. I understand that perspective too, though it couldnt' be further from my own, I respect it.

good god Sega, no. I'm not buying these games AGAIN. I got twice as many games for half the price in the PS2 collection. And yet i still paid for the SEGA AGES versions too. No more. Release something else FFS...

If M2 are handling this, we are in for a good time.

Glad there’s the option for 4:3, it’s how I’m used to seeing the games

@GrailUK
These are full remasters made by Christian Whitehead & Headcanon from the Sonic Mania team. We’re in good hands.

@GrailUK M2 are emulation specialists. These are running in their own game engine

@xiao7 What the F**K is a Sonic?!

@GrailUK Its not emulation or adjusting the original source code, ala M2, its entirely rebuilt from the ground up by Headcanon, using a version of the Mania engine. Whilst M2 are excellent at emulation and did a great job with the Ages versions of 1&2, this is a far better way to revisit these games imo as they have added so many tweaks and features not possible with the limitations of the original engine/code.

The (sadly basically mobile only) Sonic 1, 2 and CD ports became the definitive versions of these games, and Mania plays excellently, I have no doubt this colelction will be the same

[edit] Oh, sorry I see 2 people already answered you, sorry for bombarding you all at once! lol

@samuelvictor I get what you're saying, but they're still old games, with the same visuals I've experienced before.

If you put gold leaf on a McDonald's burger, it's still the same burger and I wouldn't pay fine dining prices for it

@samuelvictor @NinChocolate @Pandy-the-Panda Oh, then we are defo in for a good time

@XBontendo I'm not sure I'll buy this collection (I think I've always enjoyed the idea of Sonic more than actually playing most of the games TBH and I'm not sure I'm willing to pay the asking price on this) but I'd argue they've actually nailed the point based on what we know (and can see).

Dumping a ton of ROMs into a "retro games collection" almost always does the games disrespect. Removed from their time and place - the "secrets of the playground", "assumed knowledge" from reading magazines at the time and unlimited time to play with marginal competition from other games - most retro games wilt. Save states and rewind facilities (although beneficial overall) take some of the core gameplay loop away.

It looks like Headcannon have thought hard about alternative ways to get modern players to engage with these very old games (that were arguably old fashioned when they were released - being that they are very much arcade games in spirit) and done it quite tenderly.

In spirit I think it looks closer to what Nintendo did with NES Remix than the Mega Drive collection that Sega released a few years ago or even the decent emulation in NSO.

@Dimey Mega Collection Plus for PS2 was a brilliant value collection for sure, especially at $20. I certainly wish some of the games included on it were in this collection too - maybe they will be as unlockables or DLC in the future.

However, it didn't include Sonic CD, and the emulation had many issues. Sound effects could get a delay and go out of sync with the action, the music volumes kept changing, and the screen resolution being not divisible by the original made tearing and shimmering very common. There was also some noticable input lag if you were used to the originals but you could compensate for it and it wasn't too bad.

These new remakes are made with an internal 424x240 resolution which integer scales really well on HD, 2K and 4K tvs avaoiding these issues. And the fact its a brand new dedicated engine not emulation means input lag and sound issues won't be a thing. It also means a whole tonne of content is added making these the definitive versions.

I agree the M2 Sega Ages ports of Sonic 1 & 2 were very good. But they never ported Sonic 3, Knuckles and CD, sadly. Litearlly the last collections to include those games were the Mega Collection and Gems collection on PS2/Xbox around 2004, which amazingly was nearly 20 years ago. Damn I feel old lol

the Whitehead version of Sonic CD allowed you to select between the two soundtracks - so with this in mind I really hope the new version of Sonic 3 will let you swap between music as well.

Sonic 3 boss theme versus Sonic & Knuckles boss theme, sure, but more importantly, the two versions of the Carnival Night, Ice Cap and Launch Base themes...
I just hope that the legal issues involving these songs have been sorted out.

Worth it for Sonic CD alone.

@XBontendo Yeah I totally see that perspective. For me, these are games I'll happily be replaying til the day I die, and to have such lovingly and respectfully made versions improving them and making them the definitive experience is literally what I've been hoping for for more than half my life, realistically. Again, good lord I feel old.

But then, not everyone is going to care about them as much as I do. I totally get it. I'm certainly also hoping for Mania 2 with all new zones and music... chances are I might even end up liking that even better.

The marketing wasn’t the best sure, we can all agree,

But man, look at that menu! How can you say that’s low effort? It looks so nice, I’m so hyped!

@Orokosaki This will mark the 3rd or 4th time I’ve played cd, yes I really love that game lol.

@samuelvictor I'd fight a bear for Mania 2

OK. This is the ultimately final, to the end, last time, I'll be buying the Sonic re-releases.

That ring border....it would be awesome if whenever you lose a ton of rings, the borders show the rings bouncing around.

You know, the screenshots would actually have me convinced that this would have been worth a buy (and I am what some would call a Sonic "hater"), but the hideous DLC practices surrounding this have put me right off.

@Silly_G The deluxe version is only £4 / $4 more than the normal version and contains literally everything announced. I understand its silly and personally, I don't get why they didn't just have one version at $44 rather than make people choose between $40 and $44 and confuse everything.

The pre-order "bonuses" are just things you can already unlock for free by playing, and a single wallpaper border image. Not worth being sad if you miss it, but a nice thank you for those that get in early.

@XBontendo You and me both mate!

@XBontendo Take me with you.

@samuelvictor
The borders are also just for 4:3 classic mode that play’s exactly like the version that everybody already owns, I really don’t care for them as I will be exclusively playing anniversary mode.

@Pandy-the-Panda Yeah I'll certainly be spending the majority of my time in Anniversary and Story mode so will be in 16:9 as I suspect most people will. Even when I play in 4:3, I really hope theres a way to turn the borders off to plain black, as even if they are really nice looking, static borders always give me motion sickness as they are staying still whilst the middle of the screen moves. My main complaint with Switch online and the reason I barely use those emulators is you can't turn the stupid border off. I'm happy for those who like them though and I'm sure the designs will be beautiful.

@Silly_G
Nothing is withheld from the physical release, as there is not a physical release.

@Pandy-the-Panda : Ah, I stand corrected.

@Silly_G Theres nothing withheld from the physical release, there isn't one coming, just the 2 options for digital: standard or deluxe. My prediction is we will eventually get a physical release but it will be an ultra deluxe version with even more content we don't know about yet, and physical bonus like an artbook and fancy slip voer etc like happened with Mania Plus. But right now, its digital only, $40 or $44 depending on if you care about the extra stuff.

But yeah I completely agree with you that its stupid to hold back content just for a $4 upcharge. My advice to everyone is to just buy the deluxe version and pretend the standard one doesn't exist so they don't bother doing this kind of thing in the future. I understand your frustration (I feel it too) but I don't think its really a bad faith thing akin to the practices of EA, Activision and Ubisoft with having to buy multiple versions to get everything, or hiding stuff behind microtransactions, in game currency or loot boxes etc. Its just $4 extra if you want extra "new game plus" style replay modes and content only fans care about like extra music. Its silly and the way its confusing the market and annoying people is very frustrating, but its not making me any less interested in the game. I feel its bad marketing not bad faith practices like other companies have shown (or even Sega themselves a bit with Monkey Ball, sadly).

If the Michael Jackson composed music is there, I’ll buy on the strength of that alone. Hell, I’ll preorder if that gets confirmed before release. They’re bound to be aware everyone is asking about it!

@AmplifyMJ Yeah thats the one thing I'm concerned about, none of the promotional material has confirmed whether or not all the original music is there. Its unlikely they'd use MJ's name in the marketing but just by having one of the bits of music playing in one of the trailers or by saying "includes all original music" it could be confirmed without stirring up unecessary conversations.

If they were forced to remove it by his estate I'll understand, there's not really anything they can do about it if its refused eprmission or an unreasonable upfront fee is requested. The people who make music for modern Sonic games are insnely talented so I'm sure they can make awesome alternatives, or maybe use the versions used in the PC port years ago. But for sure I'd be very happy if they have managed to get over this hurdle and finally have the original music included. It would be nice if you could switch between the originals and the PC music, just like in the earlier port of CD by the same (ish) team you could switch between US and JAP soundtracks.

I beat a Sonic/Knuckles game when I was 7.. then PlayStation came out and i discovered 3D gaming.. maybe an open world sonic game would intrigue me but they keep regurgitating the same games/visuals over and over.. as long as people keep buying them I guess 😬

@Fizza Yes! From what I can see on all the various websites, previews etc, an absolute wealth of them, as well as specific ways to try and one-up yourself (or others) like score attacks, time attacks, boss rushes etc. and everything has a letter grade system as well, similar to what was introduced with Sonic Adventure.

In the Anniversary and story modes, you have infinite lives but replacing the lives tvs and 100 rings=life is coins instead. Presumably, you will also get coins for achievements. These are then used to unlock stuff like bonus content - art, music, bios, and new modes like mirror modes etc adding even more challenges and achievements to hit.

@WolfyTn Sonic Frontiers is an open-world Sonic game coming out around Christmas this year I'm a little nervous but I hope its good.

@samuelvictor
Coins can also be used to retry special stages. Each game’s mirror mode is unlocked after completing it normally. The museum is also said to include never before seen content.

@Pandy-the-Panda Yes! I think that will be a big help for people who find it frustrating having to reset and try again (or use save states on emulation) if they mess up. I bet this will be the first semi-legit way many people get to play as super sonic

@samuelvictor
Including me, lol. I’m looking forward finally beating Sonic 2 without spamming the re-load save.

@Pandy-the-Panda Haha nice. I know it took me quite a few years as a kid/teen replaying Sonic 2 on MD before I could finally get all the emeralds.

Also, I stand corrected on the mirror modes then, but my point was even more content and challenges can be gained by doing well in the game, finishing achievements, getting good letter grades etc. so if achievements style gameplay appeals to the OP, as it does to me, it will be a really good feedback loop of never running out of challenges to incentivise replaying the same games/levels etc over and over in different ways and perfecting different elements I think many Sonic fans are like me and have been doing this kind of stuff since they were kids, but setting their own challenges and noting down times or scores on pads of paper

@Pandy-the-Panda The 16-bit special stages are super hard, perhaps I'll be able to finally clear them outside emulators. I still have at least one to beat in Sonic CD (Xbox) and I never got all the emeralds in the Mega Drive games.

@samuelvictor Thanks for clarifying all that for those that aren't aware, once again. People will get everything if they pre-order the deluxe edition which is just a few pounds more. If they don't pre-order, they'll just miss one of the ten letterbox (pillarbox) backgrounds. The regular edition shouldn't exist but it's not the end of the world and I hope that people finally understand this, especially compared to what Nintendo does (time-limited more expensive incomplete collection of barely touched roms). I pre-ordered the deluxe edition because this remakes collection is something I've been dreaming of. This is literally the best way of playing the best and most replayable Sonic games. I agree about a black letterbox background for classic mode, I hope that it's available, not just because of what you said but because of potential image retention on OLED TVs.

Anyway, I wil be playing the Story mode the most, that plays all games chronologically with cinematic animations. This is something I usually do with other franchises I'm fan of like Resident Evil. I always play Zero first.

I'm also excited and nervous about Sonic Frontiers! 😁

@AmplifyMJ As a music fanatic, I hope that both soundtracks are available in Sonic the Hedgehog 3. I assume that both are included in Sonic CD like in the Xbox 360 version.

@samuelvictor
I was always gonna buy Sonic Origins digitally on Nintendo Switch to always be able to just open it up for a bit after playing bigger games, so having new content to come back to each time will be epic.

@Banjo- No worries! Completely agree. Story mode is certainly something I'm very excited for. I do the same with Resi Zero as well, at least if I'm playing the GC versions.

@Pandy-the-Panda Yup thats exactly what I'll be doing too

With the only two genuine pieces of concern I have being the fate of Sonic 3's soundtrack and just the weird little fiasco with the pre-order chart, this is looking like a cool collection! This seems less like an anthology and almost like these games were given a chance to be re-imagined in ways to match up with the "new 2D" identity Mania has established. Looking forward to it!

I own every other Sonic Collection, I have no problem adding this one to the collection. #sonicfanforlife through the good, bad and ugly 🤷🏽‍♂️

@samuelvictor
If only the Nintendo Switch version was available to pre-order, lol. I’m sure it’ll be up sometime in may though.

I don’t really have any official Sonic anniversary titles, so I’ll get this just to play it and finally beat 3 and Knuckles. Still wish it was Mania 2, but what can you do…

@samuelvictor I'm with you, I can't wait to play these and it looks to be an amazing collection. Sonic Jam was a great collection of native ports many years ago and this looks to improve upon that with the new animations, missions etc. Hopefully somewhere down the line they add the 8bit Sonic games or another pack with the likes of Sonic R and Adventure 1 and 2

@samuelvictor "This is 4/5 games entirely rebuilt from the ground up in a modern engine" <- Except... 1 and 2 have been available for many years now. The one they rebuilt for this collection is 3.

And the fact that it's not emulation makes it so it lacks some features, like savestates or rewind function.

@carlos82 Yeah, Sonic Jam is still the best legal official way to play S3+K to this day. Thats crazy. Glad this pack will be finally remedying this situation and finally giving us a definitive version for modern hardware. Though I'll still go back to Sonic Jam to play Sonic World and dream about what a true Saturn 3D Sonic game could have been! Between that and the bonus stages in the Saturn version of Sonic 3D (and Sonic R to an extent) its easy to imagine a super cool alternate universe where a Sonic equivalent of Mario 64 actually happened, and the Saturn sold much better in the west because of it.

@Jumping_Dead Sonic the Hedgehog 3 and Sonic & Knuckles (two games or at least a twice-as-big game). It seems that they have tweaked the others. Knuckles is available in Sonic the Hedgehog, they remastered the Sonic CD cinematic animations and there is significant extra content. I don't think that save states and rewind are beneficial here, infinite lives yes, multiple retries for the special stages, yes, but these games are otherwise "modern" unlike NES or Spectrum games. Rewinding a fast game like Sonic doesn't make much sense to me. I have only cheated playing the special stages.

@carlos82 I hope that those games are added even if they're just roms in the museum. I don't think that the Master System games (better than the Game Gear versions) have been re-released except for the Wii Virtual Console.

@Jumping_Dead If you mean the Whitehead ports, then yeah I sort of agree, and also CD can be added to that list. I've said time and time again these are currently the definitive versions and part of why I'm so excited for this collection. My frustration with those is how limited the availability of them is. I can't play them on my Switch, PS4 or PC for example. I bought an Android device specifically to be able to play them on my tv with a joypad and its a faff owning hardware just to play 3 games.

But Origins is not just those 3 already sort of released versions plus a brand new S3+K, this is Headcannon without Whitehead (he's moved on to Freedom Planet 2) and though I'm sure the engine they are made on is a more modern improved version of the same engine (as was Mania) and though they probably used a lot of the same assets, they are even newer iterations with extra features, challenges etc, not to mention the things like cutscenes/intros and the story mode tieing them all together.

As for save states and rewinds, its very likely you'll be able to pause and save at any time, which is surely the same as save states in a practical sense? And though rewinding is completely possible and it would be nice if they programmed it into the new engine, I'm not sure its preferable. In my own platform game I'm making for Switch, we chose not to include it but rather have difficulty modes that included infinite lives, respawns from just a few seconds/steps from where you died, and optional assists so you can skip if you fail too many times at a single obstacle/challenge. I think those are less clunky that rewinds, personally. And that seems to be the logic they've used here, by removing the lives+continue system. But rewinding is not an exclusive feature to emulation its relatively simple to program in to game engines if you plan for it and have the spare ram to save the previous frames' info for all the variables to (more likely in a simpler 2d game than something like a massive open world).

@samuelvictor Right, remastered 1 and 2 are only available on Android/iOS. The 3DS versions are different, great but lower-resolution.

The only current-gen or last-gen console that can play the Sonic CD remaster is Series X/S via backwards compatibility.

So yes, part of the work was done already but limited and if that work hadn't been done, Sonic Origins probably would not even exist. The great news is that Sonic the Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles (two games bundled together and connected) is remade for the first time and that all the remakes are going to be available everywhere.

It's all thanks to Christian Whitehead, a Sonic fan that made the Retro Engine and that has confirmed that it's used by Headcannon in Sonic Origins.

I originally wasn't going to bother with this collection since I already have these games so many times, but there are enough exclusive things in this (Knuckles in Sonic 1 being a big one) that I'm now excited for it.

Don't know if this has been revealed yet, but will Sonic CD include both soundtracks like the standalone release did?

@samuelvictor I am beyond hyped for the collection, in fact I already preordered the PS4 version. But I would love if they added other games like Sonic 3D or the 8-bit entries, even as paid DLC.

@speedyb We don't know yet if Sonic CD and Sonic 3 include both soundtracks. I assume that Sonic CD does like the Xbox version but I don't have a clue about Sonic 3. Michael Jackson made a few tunes for Sonic 3 but he was not credited because he didn't want to and left the project because of the 16-bit sound so I don't know what his sons' rights are. If they have rights to Sonic 3, I don't know how greedy they are. The soundtrack of Sonic 3 in Origins is a mystery right now. Three possibilities here: no rights or expired rights, rights that can be afforded by Sega's budget and rights that can't be afforded by Sega's budget. The first two scenarios mean both soundtracks included in Sonic the Hedgehog 3.

@Banjo- Exactly this, yeah. Its crazy to me how GOOD those 3 versions are, yet they are mostly ignored and kept as mobile ports and instead Sega repeatedly rerelease roms. Makes no sense and has been frustrating me for years. Thats why I jumped for joy when Origins was first anounced.

@belmont Absolutely, me too. I especially hope that if they do include the 8bit versions they include the Master System ones. The previous PS2/Xbox/Gamecube games including Game Gear roms but no Master System was such a strange choice, being how badly cropped those versions are with the lower res, was really hard to play on a big tv.

And to have Sonic 3D, Spinball and Mean Bean Machine not included at least as unlockable roms in this collection seems strange as it would complete the MD set. Preferably 32X Chaotix too, that one's never been rereleased at all as far as I know... Maybe those games are there as unlockable, maybe there will be DLC, maybe there will be Origins 2! Whichever way, I'm here for it.

I'm not sure Chaotix would warrant the effort/cost of a full Headcannon remake, though I'd love it if they included Vector, Espio and Charmy as unlockable or DLC characters, alongside Ray and Mighty who seem inevitable.

I still don't know if we will be able to play Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles individually, or as a whole game.

@luxoricious It seems that they're presented together.

@luxoricious The official text blurb on the Japanese website says/implies that the two games were combined as a single experience as was the original intention. It makes sense as thats how most people will want to play but I'm sure there were many who only owned one of the two games as a kid and will have nostalgia for playing them separately.

Though I have no more information than anyone else, being how easy it would be to program a basic toggle of what level to start and end from, and the tiny changes to the title screen, ending, stage music etc I would be surprised if "Sonic 3" and "Sonic and Knuckles" as separate experiences aren't included as a bonus unlockable mode.

@NightBeast “Wanna be friends?”

@samuelvictor That would be great to have access to all the music.

https://www.nintendolife.com/forums/nintendo-switch/sonic_origins?start=20#reply-23

However, I would prefer being able to chose songs and fanfares individually in a menu. For instance, I like the 1-up music in Sonic 3 much more but I prefer the boss battle and invincibility music of Sonic & Knuckles.

Now imagine being able to also choose the Sonic CD and Sonic 3 Windows/Mega Drive songs individually as well, that's what they should do! 😍

Really this collection has always just read like an utter ripoff to me. Selling a fraction of the content that was in the Mega Collection 20 years ago, even though a lot of Sonic games have come out since that are either difficult to access now or only really still available on Xbox and Steam. This could be so much more than what it is.

Maybe I'll pick it up when it's heavily on sale at some point but can see no reason to bother with this thing at full price at launch.

I would prefer to see modern remakes in the style of the recent Alex the kid. I don’t see how anyone could be excited about this release as it is

I'll wait for a review from another website.
When the Genesis Collection hit Switch, you failed to mention its horrible input lag. Makes a fast-paced Sonic title impossible to play

❌️I WASN'T going to get this Collection as I've many other ways of playing them...

...And then I saw Knuckles in 'Sonic 1' 🤩✅️

It would have been nice if there were a few Game Gear versions thrown in for good measure, but I'll take a new way to play Sonic 3 & Knuckles regardless.

@sleepinglion Yeah, to be fair to NLife, from looking at all the comments around the web, it seems that 50% of people are going "I found the Genesis/Megadrive Collection completely unplayable because of the lag" and the other 50% are going "I bought the Genesis/Megadrive Collection and it was such good value and I love it". Clearly, the input lag, which to me is extremely noticeable, only affects those who are either very experienced in playing the games on original hardware or fpga/super accurate emulation on high spec machines, OR those who are beyond a certain skill level to the point where it makes a difference - people trying to get the best run, shave milliseconds off their run, combine bouncing from springs to enemies etc in precise patterns using muscle memory to play like a speedrunner. I don't assume the reviewer on this site purposefully didn't mention it, it just wasn't noticeable to them for whatever reason. Maybe a more casual player just doing a blind playthrough from start to finish for fun, or indeed someone who has only ever played slightly dodgy emulated versions, doesn't notice the lag, or maybe some just subconsciously adjust to it better.

As far as Origins goes, its not emulation, its ground up reprogrammed with a modern engine, like Mania was. Unless something goes hideously wrong, there won't be any input lag at all. Should be just as smooth and responsive as Mania, touch wood.

[edit] I just checked and it was Damo who reviewed the Classics collection - certainly someone with true retro chops who will have played the originals to death. Again, I don't think he would have purposefully not mentioned the lag, I respect his retro knowledge and integrity a lot. Must be that with his play style it wasn't percievable to him, or perhaps because he played Sonic 1 & 2 so many times over the years, with this review he concentrated more on less common titles, perhaps in genres that would be less affected, like the numerous RPGs on there. But the lag is definitely there and makes it hard for me and seemingly quite a few others to play properly.

@RubyCarbuncle Those confused me as well until I learnt how to do it by myself (as you). Down and up? Ah, okay... To the bottom? All right.

Do we know yet if S3 and S&K will be separate games, or will we at long last be getting the definitive full game of S3K?

@Tipehtfomottob They are combined into one big game. The Japanese website lists the collection as 4 games (S1, SCD, S2, S3+K), and adds in the descriptive text that Sonic 3+Knuckles was originally sold as two separate cartridges.

@Banjo- @samuelvictor I don’t mean any disrespect to the other composers or versions of the soundtracks, I just mean my personal interest hinges on the Jackson tracks. Guaranteed sale from me if they’re there 😊

@AmplifyMJ Oh yeah of course, I didn't take it as you insulting alternate tracks or composers. I very much enjoy the originals and hope they are there, but its not a deal-breaker for me if they have to be replaced as there are nice alternatives. I was kinda heading off people (not you directly!) who will complain and blame Sega if they are missing, because that's hardly fair as they have close to no say in the matter, sadly.

Music licensing is a very strange beast. I produce movies and its one of the biggest headaches for me if I have a project which requires music owned by one or more of the big labels. Strangely, far more difficult than licensing a clip from a movie or tv show, or using a brand or product on screen. Music rights are especially complex.

Will I have to pay extra to unlock black borders for the 4:3 aspect ratio versions?

@Nameless_Shame We don't know for sure if theres an option for a plain black border, though I certainly hope thats there - given the developers I'd be flabbergasted if its not. But then I'm still puzzled (actually, kinda irrationally angry!) as to why Nintendo doesn't include the option for NSO.

The optional dlc (included in the deluxe version for only $4 more) includes multiple borders and there is an exclusive one free if you preorder. Its logical therefore to assume that the standard version of the game has either no border at all, or a single choice.

No physical release? Really Sega, smh. I'd gladly buy these games AGAIN on day 1 for Switch and Playstation. Digital only means I'll pass...

I’m not very familiar with Sonic CD. I had it back in … what… 95? On Windows 95? But it was with keyboard controls and I still have yet to play games like that.
So I’m considering this my first true foray into Sonic CD. Otherwise, I’m a self-declared master as Sonic 3 & K and will happily play that for the rest of my life if I can. I love everything about all this! June 23rd can’t come soon enough.

If its on cartridge I will get it
If not I might pass ass I'm sick of download games now!

I feel like I've bought these games a dozen times at this point, but I'm still down for this if a physical edition happens. I'm counting on a delayed "Plus" edition to match Mania.

I'm still on the fence about this. I'll probably wait for a sale or if they release a physical version with all the DLC included then buy it.

@JasmineDragon Same for me, yet I still keep purchasing them. I got Mania digitally thinking it wouldnt be physical ever and have regretted it since. This one I will be waiting for a physical.

Wow I’m surprised they’re just giving these out and it’s not another DLC pack.

Definitely getting this! No doubt.

Its going to rate my performance on the zones? Ughhh… no. That ruins games for me. After I’ve gotten done trying to play a level “perfectly” to unlock something or get the rank, I’ve stopped having fun. I hope I can overlook it and it doesn’t unlock stuff.

Is to bad this collection doesn't come with the Master System version of Sonic the Hedgehog, I would have liked to play that one too for it's unique stages.

@GrailUK good times on the checkered horizon

Are the screenshots included in one of the DLC tiers?

@Dimey The Sega Ages versions are still relevant oddly enough. Those are the untouched, slightly enhanced, originals. The Classic mode in Sonic Origins are actually Remade as well. (They are based off the iPad versions which has a 4:3 screen.) I think the cost is okay actually 5.00 per game is (if you count Knuckles separately) $35.00. Plus another $10 for all the new animation. There is new cartoon scenes for EACH game. So that's a lot of work.

@Pandy-the-Panda Ah! But the 4:3 are not ROMS! They have been Remade too!! They are based of the iPad versions which has a 4:3 screen. You should notice right away at the first Eggman encounter in Sonic 1. You won't be able to hit him right away, you will have to fight him.

@VR32X You don't need perfect ranks, you gain coins in Boss Rush and Missions modes. Those coins unlock stuff in the museum but some things are unlocked automatically as you play.

@thinkhector And they remastered Sonic CD animations.

Just wish Sonic 3 & knuckles got a 3DS remake

@samuelvictor

Absolutely no to the PC music. They ruined Carnival Night and Launch Base.

There’s no reason Sega can’t throw money at the issue. It’s MJ’s estate and Brad Buxor.

I dont see it as enough to purchase all these games again. Even at half price.

I want to be able to play the "Anniversary" versions of the games with all their improvements yet have all of the original rules otherwise fully intact, with the traditional lives and game overs. Is that really so much to ask for; just an option to switch the game rules back to classic style while playing the more modernized Christian Whitehead versions that have been out for years now on phones and even the Amazon Fire TV? What is with this "coins" and "unlimited lives" bull****?

So far, still, I have yet to see any indication that this is possible. Do we really have to play in the 4:3 mode that I already have a gazillion times over (except S3&K, which I only have in the old Sonic Mega Collection form on GameCube and PS2 and on PC with the Sega Genesis collection... and now think of it, on Xbox Live Arcade too), just to play with the original rules? If so, WTF is the point of this collection if I can play most of these games on any of my consoles (or all on PC) in the same exact form... or even the Christian Whitehead versions of these games on my Fire TV Stick with all the modern features, while still respecting the classic game rules regarding the life/game over system?

Why dumb these games down? Are people these days really that afraid of actually having to be faced with a challenge? Truly pathetic if so, and sad that we can't just get the best of both worlds, after waiting so many years for these modernized versions of the games to finally be released on a real, proper gaming platforms.

@OrtadragoonX Hey, for me I'm definitely all about the originals as its what I grew up with and love. But I'm sure many grew up with the Win95 port, and they deserve to have their nostaglia catered for too. No reason why both can't be included and switchable like they've done previously with the 2 Sonic CD soundtracks. However, I truly hope they have managed to reach an arrangement, for me nothing beats the originals. But as I said before, if either MJ's estate says a flat "no" or they ask for such a huge amount of money that would render the whole project unprofitable, thats hardly Sega's fault.

For example, when trying to license certain songs for low to mid budget movies I have worked on, I've been asked for over a million upfront by the owners of certain tracks, plus profit share, (when the standard cost is usually more in the $10k-100k mark) which means on certain lower budget or more niche projects its not worth potentially not turning a profit, and even on higher budget projects, you think twice about if its worth it, or if an alternative would be more sensible. Conversely, other times we've been so clear that we NEED a certain track that we've offered several million and still been refused permission by the owners simply "because they said so". Theres plenty of reason that Sega may not be able to secure the rights, and if so, its not their fault, nor is it just because they weren't willing to pay a reasonable fee. However, again, I truly wish that they have managed it, and I feel hopeful that they have.

I'm sure they'll have done everything they can to get things right for the fans where possible, everything else has clearly had so much care and love put into it, and so many true fans are working on the projects there's no way they wouldn't realise how important it is to people if at all possible. If its not to be, despite their best efforts, within a few days the community will have worked out how to patch the original tracks back into the PC version anyways

@Dimey lol

@UltraZelda64 Yeah, as ultra positive as I am being in all my comments (overall I think this all looks amazing and I can't wait for it) my only slight annoyance is the lack of a widescreen mode with traditional rules. Frankly, it doesn't personally bother me as I very rarely if ever lose a life anyways as I've played these games so much so I'll never notice, and I see the new rules as more friendly for newcomers and people used to modern games. But yeah, I totally would like the option to have the widescreen version with classic rules for those who want it, just like the Whitehead versions.

Being that many above are saying that the 4:3 versions are not roms, they are recreated/remastered too, presumably using the same engine and same code, it would be very easy for these features to be toggled on and off. Hopefully this will be in the options menu, or an unlockable feature, and if its not, if enough people want it, it will be easy enough to patch in. Its the only thing about this collection that doesn't really make sense to me, and even though it doesn't personally affect me, I can see why you are passionate about it.

@samuelvictor Yeah, I really, truly hope that this--such a seemingly simple thing--is just an undisclosed feature somewhere in the menus. No matter what, I'm getting it day one--already preordered the deluxe edition. Still can't wait.

I've been a Sonic fan for pretty much all of my life. I just want to see these games represented in the purest way possible, even if it is an off-by-default option that you have to specifically enable. Crash 4: It's About Time did it right in my opinion; they featured both a "modern" mode with unlimited lives and a "classic" mode with the traditional game over system... and they didn't really even have to, because it was a brand-new game. Sega, copy them!

@UltraZelda64 Absolutely agree with all of that!

@OrtadragoonX I just read that Brad Buxer became a professional airline pilot 😲. He's credited in Sonic 3, Michael Jackson isn't because he didn't like the 16-bit sound. I don't think that Brad would mind his official contribution being used again.

@UltraZelda64 That's why I was asking for options to play with different aspect ratio and limited/unlimited continues instead of anniversary and classic modes. Coins are said to be obtained in Boss Rush and Missions on the Japanese websites, the coins monitors you see should be in Missions mode, thus the anniversary and classic modes are gimmicky names to a set of rules but options are always better than that. At least an option to play classic mode in 16:9! I avoid 4:3 whenever it's possible! Let's see if they add this or if it's already available somewhere but, like you, I'll take what they give in the meantime.

@thinkhector
Nice catch, that increases the value for me, although I always thought there was enough value here.

Why I'll buy it regardless of owning the games on other platforms:

Less lag than genesis collection
Switch portability
Widescreen
Sonic&Knuckles

That's pretty much it. Worth the price of admission for those features alone.

As cool as this collection is, I still don't understand why Knuckles Chaotix did not make the cut in this collection.

I can understand not including the Sonic games that were on Master System, Game Gear, arcade, etc because those were totally different hardware architectures that would have required more work.

But Knuckles Chaotix was a 32X game and while it's hardware was more powerful than the base Genesis, I don't see why it could not be included.

You can't even blame an inability to get 32X emulation working since these games are rebuilt.

Just seems strange to have a Genesis era collection of Sonic games and still not re-release Knuckles Chaotix outside the 32X.

@samuelvictor Actually, there IS a physical release- I have it pre-ordered through my local game store, and since they always contact the company who is releasing the game ahead of time in order to make sure there's a physical copy before they add it into their system so that people can pre-order it, the representative of SEGA who they contacted obviously confirmed that a physical copy was releasing. If that wasn't the case, then my local game store would not have had it available to pre-order in their system to begin with, as they don't do that without confirmation!

@Pandy-the-Panda Actually, there is one! I have it pre-ordered through my local game store, which wouldn't be the case if there was no physical release. The other reason is that my local game store always contacts the company in order to make absolutely sure that a physical release is incoming before they even allow pre-orders for it, and so the representative that they spoke to from SEGA obviously confirmed that a physical release is coming, because if they wouldn't have done that, then my local game store would not have had Sonic Origins in their system in order to pre-order to begin with!

@WanzerAce To me, the big selling point is Mission Mode.

@Banjo- @Dimey I'm curious about that because it was ready remastered. On Sega CD it played in a tiny window, and the remaster brought it back to full screen. However, the colors of the video were still washed out. If all they did was touch up the paint I would be happy.

Tempted to own all three as a definitive version on the Switch. I only had all 3 way back on the Wii (originals as VC). However, not for the price stated. I appreciate Mario 3D collection argument but the gen was more recent and they were handheld 3D touched up ports.

I'll check it out before buying it. Honestly, I got so tired of waiting for Sonic 3+K to make it to modern consoles, I just got it on Steam and then got Sonic AIR to go with it, which as far as I'm concerned is the ultimate way to play these games. Even remaking these games in a modern engine doesn't cover what Sonic AIR has done for them.
That being said, the only temptation here is the Switch itself and having them portable.

How many times are they going to repackage these games? I have 1-3 on the genesis collection already. Not paying just to get Sonic CD, and some animated scenes that will end up on youtube anyway.

I'm excited to play S3&K on switch, but I'm going to wait until I get a confirmation on how they handled the music for the game. I want to play with the genesis music and iirc (could be wrong) but didn't the steam version change a lot of the music? Either way if the music is altered I'll just stick to Sonic 3 A.I.R.

@Zulzar
Sonic Origins isn’t a repackage of Mega Genesis Drive games, it’s an anniversary collection with all 4/5 classic games fully remastered in high definition widescreen. They can be played as singular experiences, as one big game with full cutscenes in story mode, or as originally intended in 4:3 with lives (which are also remastered versions as pointed out by a few people).
This collection with also include: a cut level from Sonic 2, both Sonic CD ost’s, no mystic cave death pit, a boss rush for each game, blue spheres bonus game, spin dash in 1 & cd, drop dash, tails with flight in every game, knuckles in 1 & 2, online leaderboards, time trials, ranked missions, mirror mode for each game, full music player, coins to spend on retrying special stages and in a museum that will include brand new content.

@Nintendofanatic94
There’s definitely no physical release, Katie from the Sonic social media team confirmed they have no plans. Some stores do however sell digital games, so that could be why.

@Pandy-the-Panda While Katie may run Sonic's social media pages, she doesn't work for SEGA directly, so she wouldn't know as much as the representative that confirmed it! My local game store also does not sell digital games whatsoever, unless it's an instance of a game with a download code in a box, but this is not that! What I pre-ordered was a 100% complete physical copy, as my local game store would not have even offered it as a pre-order of it wasn't going to be getting a physical copy at all. So, you're mistaken! But that's okay- as it's why I'm here!

@Pandy-the-Panda I've shopped at this game store for years, so I'd know if they sell digital games or not, and unless it's an instance of something like Overwatch on Nintendo Switch- which is a 100% online game and thus has no game card, they do not sell digital games. I would not have even pre-ordered the game if it was that, and the representative from SEGA that my local game store talked to confirmed the physical release- which is why I was able to pre-order it! They even have a big chalkboard of all the games you can pre-order once they're available and Sonic Origins was indeed one of them! Considering that I pre-ordered it just yesterday, it's obviously something that a lot of people don't know yet- including Katie! But like I said, I'm here to help it become known!

I don't think you should (or can) compare this collection with the Mario collection.
The Mario 3D Collection (emulation or not) contains 3 massive games which are more full blown adventures with platforming with literally hundret of hours of gameplay.
I really do not think 59$/€ is too much for three of the highest rated games ever on one cartridge.

@Nintendofanatic94 I've made very clear that I believe that there 100% will be a physical version, and that Sega's official statements (of which there have been several) that there is no physical version are purposefully slightly misleading, to encourage people to buy it digitally. I'd be willing to bet literally everything that I own that there WILL be physical, but it won't release right away and will be a "mania plus" style version, therefore meaning all the statements of no physical version are technically true, if slightly misleading in order to hope people will "double dip". Your gamestore friend may have prior knowledge of this, but regardless its a very safe bet so they will eventually be proved correct, sort of. However, for now, the official word is no physical of the standard/deluxe version of the game, and at the very least whatever version we eventually get will not be released on the June 23 2022 release date of the digital version. This is non disputable as backed up by all the official websites, social media, the trailer, and all press releases. Personally I'll be getting both as $44 is a bargain and I'm chomping at the bit. But for those who can wait, some sort of slightly expanded version as physical is an innevitability.

@EarthboundBenjy That to me is still the biggest question I have about this collection. Granted, I can go without having to hear Carnival Night Zone, but Ice Cap Zone is so iconic IMO. Time will tell if its the original stuff or not.

@Austrian I bought 3d Allstars, Galaxy is amazing and Mario 64 specifically is my #2 favourite game of all time, higher in my list than any Sonic game. I replay it 100% at least once a year and own it many times over. However, this collection is 4/5 games, all of which would comfortably be listed in the best games ever by many. I'd put all of them in my top 100 and would actually argue that every one is higher quality than Sunshine which wouldn't make the cut, but that's just my personal preference and others would disagree, which is fine. I don't want to argue over personal choices or tastes and its futile to do so.

But as for the sandbox Mario games giving hundreds of hours of play and these Sonic titles not doing so, thats entirely down to your play style. The Sonic games are specifically designed to be arcade-like experiences where you come back and play the same levels over and over trying to beat your best times, best scores, find a more flowing/elegant way to play, the levels are designed to be sandboxes that spark your imagination to try and play them in different ways. The devs of this game clearly understand this by adding level grades, multiple online leaderboards, high score tables, practice modes, unlockable rushes etc. Its not simply speedrunning, there are so many other ways you can challenge yourself depending on what appeals to you - for me, its mostly about flow and beauty rather than pure speed-cheesing.

Saying they don't contain 100s of hours because you can run through each one in around an hour is missing the point somewhat - perfecting them is like a sport, parkour, martial art, or dancing. Thats like saying Tony Hawks, 1080, Tempest 2000, Virtua Fighter, FIFA, Fortnite or even Minecraft are "short" games. I really love the best 2d Mario games like Mario 3 and World (both in my top 50 easily), but whilst you can choose to speedrun them, they aren't specifically designed for these kinds of challenges. Over 3 decades I've never tired of trying to find an even more beautiful, elegant flowing and efficient way through Green Hill Zone, in the same way I don't get tired painting, composing music, writing poetry, or lifting weights and slowly iterating my skills and getting better. I'm sure many don't feel this way, but I am certainly far from alone.

There are probably no other games I've put quite so many hours into without getting bored, and that I know I'll still be playing til I die, with 1 potential exception: In fact, this style of gameplay, always coming back for one more go to try and improve and beat your run in an ever more elegant and satisfying way is the exact reason why Mario 64 only reaches #2 on my favourite games ever, and Nights into Dreams is my #1 - which for me captures far more of what I enjoy about the 2d Sonic games in a 3D game than any actual 3D Sonic thusfar

@samuelvictor While that does make a lot of sense, the fact that I was able to pre-order the physical copy at my local game store means that the inevitable physical copy will be out sooner than you think! I mean, I wouldn't have been able to pre-order it at all if something wasn't coming right off the bat! Also, the PlayStation Store mentions a physical copy as well, so there's another reason to believe that a physical copy will be released sooner rather than later! My response to you was intended as a separate comment as opposed to me not believing you or calling you wrong- which was never the case! Apologies if it made you think otherwise (and I'm not saying it did)!

@samuelvictor Also, my game store friend (well, more so friends, as I know many people who work there), contacted SEGA directly before they even opened pre-orders for the game, and a representative from SEGA confirmed the physical copy- which is why the pre-orders for it were opened to begin with! My local game store does not even open pre-orders for games that have no physical copy confirmed or announced, so they wouldn't have had pre-orders open to begin with if a physical copy was not at all happening!

@Nintendofanatic94 Haha no you're fine, its a technicality whether you consider "Mania Plus" on shop shelves to be a different game to "Mania" + "Encore DLC" as exists on eShop. But its indisputable that they are different SKUs with a different name and therefore Sega can correctly and legally say they didn't lie when they said "Mania" would be digital only. Its an effective strategy as big fans will end up buying both, whereas if they released digital and physical at the same time, many wouldn't. Smart if slightly sneaky marketing.

I was just pointing out why your friend is simultaneously correct and incorrect at the same time, depending on how you look at it. Schrödinger's Hedgehog, so to speak. 😂

@samuelvictor I getcha! But also keep in mind that my friend has SKUs for PS4, Xbox One, and Switch versions of Sonic Origins in their system, which obviously means that it's not under a different name. Not only that, they got their confirmation from a representative at SEGA, so it's a little more than just a coincidence! As for the other part, I personally do not consider Sonic Mania Plus and the eShop listing of Sonic Mania + Encore DLC to be different games, as to me- that's the same!

@Nintendofanatic94 I agree that they are the same, its just a technicality, but one that allows the wording of their marketing without being legally binding. And for that exact same reason, the physical versions of Origins ill not be called "Sonic Origins". They will be "Sonic Origins Plus" or whatever - the fact we don't yet know what the full title will be is why your friend's SKUs will have a temporary title, that happens all the time. And the versions for each separate system always have a different SKU, every tiny variant of everything for sale in retail has to have a unique number so they know which versions need to be restocked etc. Anyway, its all semantics, no point going round in circles. I agree retail physical is coming. Just not yet, and it will be slightly different to the Digital version released on the 23rd June, because legally it has to be. And I will buy it all over again cos I'm a sucker

@samuelvictor The maddening bit is people wrote Sega. It's not a little-known problem. But they never bothered to fix it. The Sega Ages release of Sonic 1, though was great. Felt like the real deal

@samuelvictor While I agree with you, just as a question- if it's coming later and not sooner, than why was I able to pre-order a physical copy of the game that releases on the same day the digital version does? Not only that, why would a representative from SEGA confirm a physical copy so that pre-orders could be made? I'm thinking there's some stuff we don't even know yet! The game doesn't release for just under 2 months, we don't know everything yet!

@sleepinglion Yeah M2 do excellent work when it comes to emulation. Thats partly because they rigorously test and customise their methods for each individual game, so sadly even having the emulator of the Gen/MD collection replaced with theirs wouldn't have really helped much and tailoring for every single game there would have taken ages and cost a fortune.

@Nintendofanatic94 Because SKUs added to system require at least a title and release date to add to the database, these can often do change. Happens literally every day. Oftentimes Amazon makes new hidden SKUs on their system the second something is announced and the titles, release dates, prices, details etc change multiple times. The only thing guaranteed to stay the same is the product number.

I'll be elated if a physical version comes out day and date. But it won't. By doing so, Sega would literally lose millions of sales.

I may be wrong. But I'm not. Their shareholders would literally revolt. And they would be in legal trouble, as a publicly traded company, for knowingly making a false official statement which could lead to people making a financial decision to buy or sell shares based on false information. It would actually be illegal to go against what they said.

However, please, I don't want to go round in circles about this. Whilst some others were dismissive of your message, I offered a perspective where I believe you and what your friend says. I'm not trying to annoy you, just pointing out how both sides can be sort of true and false at once.

@Caryslan I agree and that would have added special value to the collection because very few people have played Knuckles Chaotix. Also, its soundtrack is included in the deluxe edition of Sonic Origins. I'm not sure that it could have used the Retro Engine as the others but at least an emulated version would make sense along with Sonic 3D: Flickies' Island/Blast, Sonic Spinball, Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine and the main Master System games. The museum seems a good place to put them together presented as in Animal Crossing and Sega Mega Drive Classics, with consoles and cartridges in a room.

@Nintendofanatic94 I don't know if I should answer but if there was a physical version releasing on the 23th of June, the official trailer and the Sega representative on Twitter wouldn't say that it's digital only. Also, Sega workers wouldn't be allowed to tell that it exists to just one shop, contradicting the official statement, because that would be unfair to the rest of the retailers and even illegal. If there was a physical version coming, all shops would know at the same time and Sega wouldn't say the opposite. Perhaps, in the future (next year), a re-release is announced, physical and digital, with extra content along with a digital upgrade for owners of the original title, which is what happened with Sonic Mania.

@Caryslan @Banjo- Agreed totally. I'm one of the few who bought and enjoyed Chaotix back in the day just after release. Its very strange its never been rereleased even as a rom, we've had solid 32X emulation for over a decade.

I think the band/tether mechanic would be difficult and time consuming to recreate for the Retro Engine and given that many people don't like it, it doesn't seem worth it, so Banjo's solution (which we've talked about before) is a good one.

For completions sakes of having the ultimate "Megadrive" collection, it would make complete sense to have Chaotix, Sonic 3D, Spinball and Mean Bean there, and to add all the 8bit games to make a complete picture of the "Origin" of Sonic games would be perfect. This is an obvious perspective for most fans so I wouldn't be surprised if these are what is included in the eventual extra dlc & physical version.

That said, I know I keep saying it, but the Chaotix sprites would be lovely to have as unlockable/purchasable playable characters in the other Sonic games. I don't think that would take too much work, and I'd really get a kick out of that. They are great designs. Also, zones based on the Chaotix zones/tilesets but with more traditional gameplay in the Retro Engine would be great, they are so colourful and cool, like the more abstract style of the CD zones.

@UltraZelda64 The 4:3 Classic Mode Sonic games are also Christian Whitehead Remasters! These come from the iPad release that has a native 4:3 screen. Those iPad versions are actually my favorite ones. The game just feels better in 4:3 in my opinion.

Coins? Coins? COINS?!

@Styrophoamicus lol. There are coins as well as rings in the anniversary/story modes. You earn them, and use them to unlock certain features, modes etc, and also can use them to retry special stages if you lose them. To be clear, the coins are valueless in-game currency you collect/win by playing and are not microtransactions or anything sinister. You don't pay real money for them in any way (save for getting 100 to start with as a pre-order bonus).

@samuelvictor I never thought you were coming off as annoying or anything! You seem like an upstanding individual! But keep in mind that SEGA would be losing more sales by releasing the game as a digital-title only, as the people who are solely physical buyers will refuse to buy it unless there's a physical copy! So, as a result of that, SEGA would be losing a lot more money than they would've if they didn't release a physical copy at all, as there are far more physical-only buyers out there than digital ones!

@Banjo- Katie isn't an official SEGA representative though- just because she runs the Sonic social media pages does not make her an official SEGA representative. Anybody could run a social media page like that, and it doesn't make them an official representative! It could be any ordinary average Joe like you or me running a page like that, and if it was it wouldn't make us official SEGA representatives! It was also never announced anywhere else but there, so I wouldn't necessarily take Katie's word for it, as like I said, she's not an official SEGA representative! That's why the fact that I was able to pre-order the game physically just two days ago when my local game store does not even allow pre-orders for a game that they know for a fact will not be getting a physical release at all and only make allow it if they get confirmation from the company releasing the game beforehand leads me to believe that a physical copy is indeed coming at launch, because if it wasn't, I would not have been able to pre-order it at all. I'm also certain that it's not just my local game shop that was told this, as it wouldn't make a lot of sense for them to be the only one told. But since I don't shop at any other game store besides this one, my local game store is the only one that I know for absolute certainty, but I'm sure that other game stores have been told as well! Also, if a physical copy was not coming at launch, then the PlayStation Store would not have mentioned one either!

@Nintendofanatic94 Thank you for the compliment. Again, not being rude but please understand that this is my literal LAST response on this matter, I can't keep doing this all day lol

Of course if they only release digital and never physical they would lose money. I've literally never even said thats even an option. There is literally no universe in which they don't release a physical version, despite what they are saying right now. Its just a technicality and a tactic to sell more. That was the precise point of all my previous messages.

There are 2 possible scenarios:

#1 Release Digital and Physical on the same day, June 23rd, (which is what you are suggesting your friend thinks will happen). Fans will buy a copy, and most will buy physical, as you said. Or...

#2 Release digital only and say there "won't" be physical. Many fans buy the digital copy. Then 6 months or so later, release a physical copy with minor upgrades, and all the same fans buy it again. Twice the amount of sales. And the people who "only buy physical" and didn't buy the digital will finally be persuaded to buy as well. Its a win-win. Its what they did with Sonic Mania, and its what they are going to do here.

As I and others have said, it doesn't make sense to go with option #1. They'd make less money, annoy the shareholders affecting the value of their company, and they would also open themselves to a massive lawsuit.

As for Katie / MiniKitty, she 100% IS an official representative for Sega. She is literally employed by them to promote the Sonic brand through their official verified accounts, and even her personal account is verified by Twitter under the brand ambassador clause. She is not a fan account or something a regular joe could do. She's not an "insider leaker" who can't prove what they are saying. She literally IS the official "Social Media Manager" paid for by Sega to promote Sonic as a brand/IP.

And as I've clearly stated above, if you use Twitter or anything else to give the impression a publicly traded business that you work for is going to do something, and then they do the opposite, that is literally illegal as can lead to manipulating the stock market prices and insider trading. She will be VERY careful what she posts is accurate and wording carefully run through Sega first. I promise you I know all about this stuff. A quick look on IMDb will confirm that I've worked for Disney, Sony and many other major companies and produced countless movies, including managing getting countless DVDs, Blu-Rays and CDs to retail. I deal with media lawyers all the time.

Anyways we really should stop talking about this though as all the relevant points have been made multiple times and it must be a bit annoying for others looking through these comments hoping for a fun Sonic discussion! Lets try and bring it back to the games, ok?

@Nintendofanatic94 It's not just that woman working for Sega that stated that there are no plans for a physical version but the official trailer specifically lists digital platforms instead of platforms and the official website only lists digital pre-orders.

@Banjo- See my post above Katie very much IS an official Sega representative and was posting official information on an account verified through her employment through Sega. No need to reply to me, just making sure you see it so theres no mistake.

@samuelvictor Yep, I just updated my comment after reading your explanation.

@Banjo- The PlayStation Store also mentions a physical copy, so it's not just my local game store that knows about that! It's obvious to me that Katie doesn't have all the info, because there's literally no way that my local game store would've allowed pre-orders for Sonic Origins if there was no physical copy incoming at launch. That's just not how they do things! They are very specific with the way they make sure a game is 100% getting a physical copy before they even open pre-orders for a game, so they wouldn't have even done it if there was no physical copy at all! I'm not saying you're wrong or anything like that- far from it- but what I am saying is that someone from SEGA obviously confirmed a physical copy was coming, because there would've been no pre-order option if there wasn't! There also would've been a conversation similar to the following when I went in to pre-order it two days ago if there was no physical copy:

Me: Hi, I'd like to pre-order Sonic Origins please!

Local game store employee: I'm sorry, but that game isn't getting a physical release, so we're not accepting pre-orders for it.

@samuelvictor You don't have to respond to this, but I just wanted to add that chances are a very small number of people would even buy Sonic Origins digitally on launch if that was all there was, which means that SEGA would make very little to almost no money at all from digital sales by doing things that way! It would only be if a physical copy was coming that the sales of the game would shoot up drastically! I'm not saying you're wrong- far from it in fact, but at the same time I think it would be a stupid idea for SEGA to only release these games digitally when versions of Sonic 1 and 2 are already available digitally on the same consoles that Sonic Origins is releasing on! Even Sonic CD is available on some PlayStation consoles! If people were to buy the games digitally, it would stand to reason that they would much rather buy the games at a much cheaper price on the Nintendo eShop, PlayStation Store, and Xbox Live Arcade, as well as on STEAM and other digital storefronts for cheaper than spend $40+ dollars on the same games in a collection digitally. If it was physical, however, people would spend more money on that because they'd own the games forever by buying the collection in that way! It would be a bad financial decision for SEGA to do things this way overall! That's all I'm getting at! You don't have to respond to this, but I'd still appreciate it if you at least read it! Thanks for being so nice! I'm new here, so I'm glad to have found someone so nice in my first couple of days here!

It would be cool if they remastered the games using the art style of the "classic" sonic models from the 3d games

Let me just say, having a trailer & website that say digital only release for June 23rd and then having a physical release on the 23rd as well, is not only highly immoral, but is probably illegal. Many people would see it as a bad, anti consumer practice and not buy the game all, and Sega would know that people would act like that.

As for Katie, as said previously, she is a full employee of Sega’s Sonic the Hedgehog branch/pillar, and manages a lot of marketing details and events (such as the Sonic Synthony). She would not say anything about Sonic before confirming it with her bosses, she would probably get fired for making a wrong statement. Her “no physical planned at this time” statement IS from Sega, and again, I doubt Sega would lie about the digital only 23rd release and “no physical planned” statement, cause it’s probably illegal, and definitely worthy to be sued.

Don’t get me wrong, I definitely believe that the very top bosses of Sega are planning a physical release, in 2023 after announcing an expansion so they can give it a separate name (mania - mania plus) to the original release, to make their statement technically more true. Most (if not all) company’s plan things months in advance, so for their statement to seem true they’ll need to wait at least 6 months before announcing a physical version, let alone releasing it. when it’s announced they’ll say something like “Sonic Origins has sold so well that we’ve got some more content coming to the game. This new content will also be packaged in this new physical edition”.

I’m sorry, but I can’t personally believe that Sega confirmed that Sonic Origins was getting a physical copy on the 23rd to a single game store and that somebody has a physical preorder at said store, on word alone. Whereas Katie’s statement is available for the public to see and would have been confirmed with her bosses at Sega before she posted it. Sega wouldn’t say one thing to the Sonic social media manager (important employee WITHIN Sega) and another thing to a single store (not part of Sega)….

Everything that needs to be said as been said, unless more evidence comes to light. May this please be the end for the time being.

@ShadowofTwilight22 Switch is the easy choice for games like this since theyre not really improved by having more power.

I know that it's called Sonic 'Origins' which makes you think about these original main series games but I really wish they would have included Sonic Spinball and Sonic 3D Flickies Island at least and the Master System/Game Gear versions.

Hopefully the latter will be unlockables or something.

@bonjong23 PS5/SeriesX/PC "Face it, you're never going to get my power". Switch "Do I Look Like I Need YOUR Power?" 😂

@Ellie-Moo Totally agree, and I've seen countless others say the same, and given how many true fans there are on the team I'm sure these are obvious inclusions and will have been right at the top of wanted features. I'd love it if they were unlockable. However, being how much they all are fan requested, and how we are 99% sure there will be an expanded physical release (and equivalent future dlc to bring to the same spec for digital owners) it would be more logical from a business sense to include them in that version.

Being they included the Mega CD game, the 32X Knuckles Chaotix is a pretty obvious missing component to have the "16bit 2d platform" series completed, and being that it's never been re-released at all, that would be a showstopping announcement for the future version.

One thing that's just occurred to me: If they include the 16bit version of Sonic 3D in the future, they should contact Jon Burton (the original programmer) and ask to include his Director's Cut version, making it legit. I've spoken to Jon multiple times, he's easy to get hold of and has a real passion for the game, I'm sure he'd be delighted.

@Pandy-the-Panda & @Banjo- 👌

@Nintendofanatic94 No worries. Far as I'm concerned, you're welcome here and I admire your obvious passion for Sonic games. 👍

@Nintendofanatic94 I know that your intention is not to say that I'm wrong and that you're explaining and sharing your experience at your local store. I hope I was nice to you as well. In any case, keep us posted about your pre-order.

Just so you guys know Knuckles could only be play in Sonic 1, 2, and 3 & Knuckles of the collection. He won't be playable in Sonic CD. Also Amy and Metal Sonic will be in the collection but not as playable character.

https://soahcity.com/2022/04/23/sega-confirms-knuckles-not-playable-in-sonic-origins-sonic-cd-port-2/

@Specter_of-the_OLED Yeah I noticed that Knuckles is not playable in Sonic CD via the Japanese press release. He wasn't in the Whitehead version either. I guess it must be that his glide or climb abilities break the game somehow because of the specific level design or features - maybe the vertical runways? To me, its not a big deal as I mostly like to play as Sonic or Tails, but I understand some people are 100% Knuckles mains, so its a shame.

I hope its something that can be fixed with a patch, or even just have Knuckles in CD as an unlockable bonus feature that just flashes up a warning text saying he can glitch out the levels and you may get stuck.

As for Amy, I was never expecting her to be playable, though I would love that as she's personally my favourite Sonic character. The fact she wasn't included in Mania Plus was my only real disappointment with it, certainly weird to add Mighty and Ray before including her. I would imagine she is a shoe-in for a future Origins dlc playable character though, being she's in Sonic CD, and is not only in the animated sections of the trailer but also on the front cover. Metal Sonic would be fun to control but seems unlikely as he is a Badnik.

In the trailer, if you look at the character select portion, the white box where the 3 characters are in is much bigger than it needs to be. It looks like there is space to add at least 1 character there, probably 2. If it turns out to be Mighty and Ray again with no Amy imma riot lol.

@samuelvictor I have watched the trailer around 10 times. The character transitions are very well done. The white box seems to be designed for five characters and I'm afraid that the last two are Mighty and Ray. Sega even had new music composed for the trailer. They're cleverly hiding the unlockables and the game music.

@Banjo- Yeah I agree that its probably 5 characters, and if it is, there are 2 logical choices for the 2 extra - either Amy+Metal Sonic, or Mighty+Ray.

Amy & Metal Sonic makes the most sense for this compilation of games, but would be a lot of extra work. Therefore Mighty and Ray seem more likely which would be cool but I'd be sad for Amy getting ignored again!

As I said before though, if they do a future DLC pack with all the classic characters from 16/32bit era (ie adding Amy, Ray, all the Chaotix) that would be very fitting, and definitely worth paying for as the future "plus" style upgrade.

One thing that I'm not sure I've seen anyone else mention here: There is a little options icon on Sonic's character selection. Given that there is a story mode that lets you play all the levels of all games in order as one big adventure, I'd wager that this is an option to switch between the different Sonic sprites, so you have a consistent Sonic throughout all levels. For example, you could use the flat cartoony Sonic 2 design in S3+K instead of the semi rendered/3d look one. If I'm right, thats awesome and something I always wanted.

Presumably they will also have obvious options that were in the previous games there too, like turning on the spindash in S1, adding the improved S2 spindash to CD, toggling the Peelout, Dropdash, instashield etc.

@samuelvictor Amy would be nice but they have already made Mighty and Ray and they're ready to go. Metal Sonic doesn't make sense as a "hero", unless he had been short-circuited LOL. Playing with the different Sonic sprites is a very easy thing to implement and a good idea. I have watched Knuckles Chaotix gameplay and it looks like a Mega Drive game, Retro Engine should be able to handle it. Or hey, just add it along with more Mega Drive and Master System games to the museum in emulators. I and 99.99% of the gaming population haven't played it.

All the in-game options are welcome and make sense in this scenario, that's why instead of fixed "classic" and "anniversary" modes there should be options to toggle the special moves, the aspect ratio, the infinite continues, the different Sonic sprites and the different music. I'm hoping for lots of options and a few unlockables.

@Banjo- Yeah I agree with all of that. I stated in my reply to another user above that I personally think it would be weird to have Metal Sonic playable as he is a badnik, though as a novelty to unlock it would be fun. Of course playing Amy in Sonic CD would also be weird as Metal Sonic has to kidknap someone... but then, we've had Knuckles and Knuckles so I don't think people would mind 2 Amys. Or swap her for Sonic! Heck, its 2022 lol

However, if there ARE 2 slots to be filled, as we both suspect, and Amy IS one of them, then the other one would logically be Metal Sonic as they are both on the cover. But again, I think its far more likely (though less interesting!) that it will be Mighty and Ray, for the exact reason you said, and Amy will not be included this time, or at least until the expanded version is released.

Yes, Chaotix is essentially a "Megadrive" game but with expanded 32 bit colour pallet and sprite scaling, rotation and transparencies, so the zones could easily be remade in the Retro Engine which already supports all those features. I'd really love to see that.

The difficulty would be the tethering mechanic, which would need programing from scratch and considering many people don't like it, I'm not sure if its worth the effort/cost. (Thats not my personal opinion though. Owning it back in '95, I actually thought that while its jarring at first, once you get used to it its a lot of fun. But I'm very much in the minority there).

Should they not want to have the tethering, it would be absolutely wonderful to have the Chaotix zones and characters adapted to more traditional gameplay style in the retro engine. That would be a huge undertaking though so I imagine thats either not going to happen, or its in the future expanded version. As you said, an unlockable ROM is far more likely, and would still be a big deal as its never been re-released in any collection or offered for sale since, to my knowledge.

@samuelvictor The possible features and additions are exciting! Characters, options, games... We'll see what we get in two months and perhaps more content is added in the future. One great thing about Sonic is that the 16-bit characters all match the gameplay somehow in a similar but unique way. The 3D games are a different thing with all kind of gameplay styles but Sonic, CD, 2, 3&K and, apparently, KC all share the same style. The gameplay is cohesive and the characters all fit it. In other words, it was not less fun playing as Tails when he arrived and it was amazing when he learnt to fly. Now that you and others are talking about Amy, I can see her rolling already in a 2D fashion unlike in the 3D games, perhaps swinging a hammer when you press the jump button a second time.

@Banjo- Yeah Amy works great in the multiple unofficial mods & romhacks available for Mania and the classic games. And for official 2d games, she plays well in the Advance series too. Even if they added her without her hammer (which was mostly introduced in her modern design, though she has it in Sonic the Fighters and a Mania Adventures animated short) and just had her as a literal sprite swap for Sonic I'd be fine with it, if she's just an unlockable bonus rather than something you pay extra for.

I completely agree about the 16bit mainline games all sharing a cohesive style, and the slight variations in character movesets or speed etc is a cool way to switch things up whilst remaining familiar. I think thats why I like them all so much and having them together as a group in a collection feels so right.

Though I've bought every 3D Sonic game at launch, and enjoy many of them, part of the problem with the modern series overall is a lack of consistency with each one trying to reinvent the wheel, or adding a gimmick which we never see again, meaning that just because you enjoy one game, or hate one game, doesn't mean you'll feel that way about the next one.

And you're right that in games like Adventure 1 & 2 where each character has their own completely unique play style can be a problem if you enjoy certain parts more than others. I think that's why I liked Heroes - whilst there are different teams to pick, adding some variety and replay value, each team basically worked the same way, and all the levels had consistent gameplay. I think Adventure 1 & 2 had much higher highs, but Heroes is more consistently fun, and I don't dislike any parts, whereas there are parts of the Adventure games I'd rather skip.

@samuelvictor Oh, I haven't played the Sonic Advance games or any mods so I didn't know that she was playable in 2D at all. I think I'll play the Sonic Advance trilogy while waiting for Origins. Amy's gameplay style in 3D is not my thing but there are so many weird elements in the Sonic 3D games that we could talk for hours about them! I gave Sonic Heroes up in the jungle section where the camera doesn't let you know how and when to avoid the dangers and when you run out of lives you have to start from the beginning. I loved it until then but I was so annoyed that I never went back to it. I would love it to be tweaked and remade/remastered.

@Banjo- The Advance games are brilliant, you'll love them! Dimps did a great job And yeah I agree that bit in Heroes is made frustrating by the camera. I'd definitely welcome a modern sequel or remake of that game that uses the same style of gameplay but fixes some of the clunkiness.

@samuelvictor After Sonic Colours, I hope that more 3D games are tweaked and remastered. I played the DS games (Rush, Rush Adventure and Colours) back in the day and now I'll play the Advance games .

@Banjo- You were absolutely nice to me, so don't worry! Also, will do!

@Nintendofanatic94 Cool!

@samuelvictor Thanks my friend! But keep in mind that it's not just Sonic games that I'm passionate about, but all video games!

@Banjo- Yeah I'd like that too! The Rush games were made by Dimps as well, and I enjoyed them a lot, but I feel the Advance games are "better" or at least more to my taste because they are even more similar to classic Sonic games, but with the advancements that a 32bit system could give. I'm sure you'll have fun with them

@samuelvictor You can also play the mobile
versions on the big TV with an Apple TV device

@Taikuaile Yeah totally. I guess thats the iOS equivalent of me using an Android device like a Shield. I bet it works very well Still, its very strange that these (far superior!) versions weren't brought to modern consoles or PC, and instead roms were re-released multiple times, with varying quality of emulation.

@samuelvictor I will share my thoughts about the Advance trilogy . Do you or anybody else know if the Sonic Colours remaster was successful commercially? More 3D remasters would be awesome.

@Banjo- I know it sold very well on launch week, remember it was #3 in the all format charts which Sega said outperformed their expectations, and more than half the sales were for Switch (which of course is a shame as that was the one with the viral glitches at launch, but it does backup the pattern that a lot of retro Sega fans are now predominantly Switch gamers). I don't think total sales figures have been released so far for shareholders but anecdotally people I've spoken to at Sega Europe seemed happy with how it performed.

@samuelvictor That's great, the next one should be Heroes.

@Banjo- Personally I'd love that. My general impression has been that I'm in the minority of having it in my favourites, I hardly ever hear it mentioned. My guess would be the Adventure games or Unleashed would get done first. But I was very happy when the Sonic Heroes theme made it into the 30th Symphony performance and there was really positive responses in the live chat comments

A collection of Adventure 1,2 Heroes, Shadow and Unleashed would break the internet but honestly I think thats too much to expect to get properly remade. More likely is just uprezzed versions of the PC ports and emulation.

A port of Generations for modern consoles seems an obvious big seller, though it wouldn't really need improvement in any way, just porting. Usually I'd think its "too new to need a port" but then I see stuff like The Last of Us get remade from PS3 to PS4, and then again from PS4 to PS5 and they sell like hotcakes.

@samuelvictor I think that Sonic Heroes is great except for the camera that plays against the player, at least in that area. The part I played was a more streamlined Sonic 3D experience, like Sonic and the Secret Rings that I also liked but easier to play. Sonic Generations is my favourite Sonic 3D game and not just that that could mean little but I love it and it runs great on Series X (4k60fps). Sonic Unleashed... I bought it when it got the 60fps upgrade on Series X. I'm not loving it but I'm near the end and I'll beat it. It has a few great daylight levels (the first ones) but the rest is boring (I don't know if you agree) and it's a pity because the production value seems high just looking at the character models and hub areas. I beat Sonic Adventure on GameCube back in the day, super frustrating camera and quite interesting game. I haven't played Sonic Adventure 2, Shadow the Hedgehog, Sonic and The Black Knight (I have this one so I'll play it) nor Sonic the Hedgehog 2006. Sonic Adventure 2 is available on Xbox but perhaps they remaster it someday and I can play a better version.

Capcom does this thing very well, they release updated versions of the Resident Evil games each generation (plus the three excellent remakes) and you don't need old consoles or emulators to play them. They also do it with Mega Man and Street Fighter.

@Banjo- I wasn't aware those games run at 4K 60fps on Series X, that's awesome! I've mostly been a Nintendo/Playstation/PC gamer but Series X has been really tempting me because of how well they support all the backwards compatibility and Game Pass. You're right about Capcom, they are good about making sure most of their non-licensed games are easily available on each new generation. I'm split right down the middle of "its awesome they are available for people to play and for new generations to discover" and "how many times do they want me to buy that game for full price again?". Things like the Xbox Series X playing OG Xbox and 360 games in 4k 60fps and being included on Gamepass is a really awesome thing, and probably/(hopefully?) the future... although for me personally I'll always want to have a physical version of games to own.

I found Secret Rings and Black Knight to be cool ideas and nice to look at but the controls made them hard to enjoy. You're right about the camera in Adventure. I prefer the Dreamcast version to the GC but both are equally glitchy and frustrating - however, the really good bits make it worth it. I could replay that first Sonic level over and over and never get bored of it. Unleashed is ok, I prefer the daylight levels which play well and look beautiful. I found the Werehog stuff yet another unnecessary one off gimmick, but I know some people love it.

I agree Generations is probably the best 3D Sonic game overall, I know most people think its between that and Colors. I like Colors a lot, though personally, I'd have liked it even better without the Whisps. Again, until we have a track record of solid, good 3D Sonic games that nail the formula, one off gimmicks kinda annoy me. I don't feel we've quite ever had a "perfect" 3D Sonic game, that captures both the spirit and quality of the 2D games, though Generations is probably the closest. I'm very hopeful for Frontiers. But I'm always hopeful. No matter what Sonic game comes out, I'll always buy it and give it a chance

@samuelvictor You're not the first to tell me that the Dreamcast version of Sonic Adventure is better. Generations is awesome because there are no gimmicks and the 3D, 2D and boss acts are all great and the controls are intuitive. Sonic Forces really disappointed me. You can't dash in the air like in Generations. Also, the level design is a mess. It's either simple and boring or so badly designed that you have to dash on the roof of a very small building but you can fall off and die. The team that developed it was not experienced and it shows. I forgot to talk about Sonic Colours and I agree with you, it's mostly fine but the wisps are gimmicky and overused. Sonic Team has changed over the years but I hope that Sonic Frontiers is good. Sonic has always been about protecting nature so if they manage to get the speed right in that 3D countryside, in a smooth and semiautomatic fashion and the gameplay is fun it should be awesome. Fingers crossed.

@Banjo- Yeah I agree with all of that. I think Sonic Forces might be the only 3d Sonic game I haven't played all the way through. Even games I haven't liekd I've still forced myself to complkete at least once, partially out of some strange brand loyalty, but also just so I feel I've got a completely fair view, as sometimes games I don't like to begin with grow on me over time.

But Forces came out at a time when I was super busy with work stuff, not in a great place mentally, and as it didn't initially grab me, after a few plays it was put back on the shelf and I've not gone back to it since.

One day I really should finish it, but yeah it was quite disappointing, especially considering the anouncement trailer saying "From the team that brought you Sonic Colors and Generations". Goes back to what I said before about how with 3D Sonic, just because a previous game was good/bad, doesn't mean the next game will be. They are all so different to each other its impossible to predict. I'm hopeful for Frontiers. And I'll buy it regardless, so they have my money lol.

@samuelvictor Yep, the same Sonic Team, what they don't say is the people that have left and joined Sonic Team. I hope that Sonic Frontiers plays well. Sonic Forces performed well commercially but it was panned by most fans and critics so I want to believe that they're doing a better work this time.

@Banjo- Yeah definitely, I wondered at the time whether they meant the exact same people, or just "Sonic Team" in general, which has changed the members many times over the years. A similar thing happens in my industry where a distributor will put a statement like "from the studio that brought you" or "from the producer of" on a movie trailer or poster, and its always a red flag as it means precisely nothing to do with the quality or creative decision of the film.

@samuelvictor Ha ha, that's true. I hope that Sonic Frontiers doesn't need that kind of deceptive marketing. I remember that on the eShop New Super Mario Bros. 2 (an awful Mario game, the worst) was advertised as the new Super Mario Bros. 3. Sonic Frontiers looks good, it has a lot of potential because of the open environment but it's a mystery as well. My idea is to automatically avoid rocks and trees at top speed. I wonder how the stages will be, hopefully like Generations evolved. The whole game with 3D gameplay would be nice and cohesive. We need a great Sonic 3D game!

@Banjo- Ouch! SMB 3 is my favourite 2D Mario game, and NSMB 2 is my least favourite. lol.

In general, "open world" games are not my preference for 3D (I like fairly open but designed sandboxes, like Mario 64, or tightly designed dioramas/obstacle courses like 3D World) as "open worlds" can often feel either empty or repetitive to me, and its easy to get lost. However, if ever I was going to enjoy really exploring a big open world, it would be a Sonic one! And even if it is quite empty but with interesting small pockets of areas darted about (like many open world games) with Sonic being about speed and tricks it should at least be fun to zip around between them, eliminating one of my usual annoyances in the genre.

Of course, we've not really seen very much of the game yet, but I'm very hopeful that it will be good. I like what I'm hearing so far. And lets be real, even if its not good, we'll probably still have some really cool new music and interesting lore. But I have a good feeling about it

@samuelvictor Yep, nothing as empty as BotW . I wonder how they're going to integrate proper stages into the world, assuming they'd do it. I also have a good feeling about Sonic Frontiers, like these are better times because of the success of the Sonic films and the rebirth of the classic games. Bring a good Sonic 3D game and it's one of the best if not the best Sonic anniversary ever.

@Banjo- Absolutely, these are good times for a Sonic fan

And lol I nearly went off a mini rant in my previous post about BOTW, I personally really don't enjoy the "open" ness of it because it feels so empty and repetitive to me. Its one of my least favourite 3d Zelda games. I like the shrines, I don't like all the faffing inbetween, nor the comparative lack of story, humour and characters. On Switch I've put FAR more play-time into Links Awakening than BOTW which to me is a much more fun game. Its small but perfectly formed and I've enjoyed playing it through multiple times. I don't often publicly mention BOTW on forums and the like as I'm aware that I'm in the minority and especially for many Switch owners its their favourite game ever. I'm happy for them and don't want to insult something they love. Its just not for me despite buying it on Wii U and then again on Switch to try and see if I missed something first time round.

But lets assume Sonic Frontiers is similar to BOTW in design -I'd probably like it more, because the "shrine" areas would be like the Sonic action levels of previous games, and the wide-open areas in between would be faster and more fun (for me) to run through. So, even though people are comparing it to a game I don't really like, I think it might work. We'll see

@samuelvictor "Yeah I noticed that Knuckles is not playable in Sonic CD via the Japanese press release. He wasn't in the Whitehead version either. I guess it must be that his glide or climb abilities break the game somehow because of the specific level design or features - maybe the vertical runways? To me, its not a big deal as I mostly like to play as Sonic or Tails, but I understand some people are 100% Knuckles mains, so its a shame."

Quoting for context, it's not Knuckles' unique mechanics that prevent him from being playable in CD, fans got him working in a reverse engineered version of Taxman's Sonic CD on PC with mods. That version of the game ran on Retro Engine 3, Sonic 1 and 2 ran on Retro Engine 4. Mania was on Retro Engine 5, and at the moment, it's not clear if Retro Engine 5U is powering Origins or just Sonic 3 & Knuckles. (Taxman mentioned 5U on Twitter, and with the devmenu enabled on Sonic Mania PC, you can see it's 5, not 5U)

The point I'm attempting to make is, they could have added in Knuckles, the only thing keeping them from doing so would be the time it would actually take to put his code and animations into the game, and then do testing to remove the bugs. Amateurs had this done in months in their free time, I imagine it would take days or a few weeks for an experienced team. However, this comes with the issues that the fans ran into, incorporating a slot for him on the character select screen, moving things around, etc, lots of small changes that add up that SEGA could have just said "No, we aren't giving you permission to add a new character to Sonic CD, just touch up the menus" something like that.

I previously speculated that it had to be due to Knuckles unique mechanics, but much to my surprise, the fans revealed that wasn't an issue for CD. As as someone who loves to play as Knuckles, it sucks, but I have my PC Decompilation I can play whenever that's going to inevitably have all of the Origins features either backported or eventually decompiled as well.

@Knuckles Thanks for the detailed response, that's very interesting, and I'm glad to hear that its possible and the unique mechanics of that game aren't an insurmountable barrier.

Considering the new changes made for anniversary mode, and the story mode being playable through in one go, I'd bet that all 4/5 of the games are running on the same version of the retro engine, presumably the latest (rather than it reusing the different earlier versions of the engines from the previous games for those ones), so bringing in Knuckles shouldn't be too much work as all the animations, hitboxes, physics values etc would just transfer across.

As you said though, probably lots of little changes and extra testing etc so maybe Sega decided it was too much trouble right away. But we can hope that he will be brought in either with a later patch, or in the later dlc/plus version

@samuelvictor I'm picking up the PC version, so I know Knuckles will be modded in shortly. And I'm a sucker for Sonic, so I'll be rebuying an eventual physical version on Switch.

@samuelvictor I couldn't agree more about Breath of the Wild and I have complained about it many times on Nintendo Life. Believe or not, many people agree with us and there are articles about it explaining why it's not the best game ever and why it's not the best The Legend of Zelda game ever. Change the name and it's a mediocre game that don't fulfil the big world premise, with the most disappointing "dungeons" in the series and with questionable and counterproductive gameplay choices. On top of that, the story and NPCs that wrapped the game are flat. As a side note, I also think that the open world of Sonic Frontiers should be fun to navigate.

@Knuckles @samuelvictor I think that Origins is using the latest Retro Engine version that should be backwards compatible with older code (Sonic CD port). I hope that they add [Tails and] Knuckles to Sonic CD as part of a future update or expansion.

@Banjo- Pretty sure Tails is included in CD unless I missed an anouncement. He's definitely unlockable in the existing version.

Its reassuring to know I'm not the only one that felt that way about BOTW. The way so many people (even people who are usually critical of Nintendo stuff) speak about it as like the new coming of games has been consistently confusing me since release. I keep coming back and retrying but I just don't "get it". I saw quite a few people speaking up in the "launch day regrets" post on this site too, I'm glad to see that nowadays people don't get flamed as much for expressing this opinion. But I still don't want to insult a game so many people love. Its just not for me. I hope Frontiers will be more fun to me

@samuelvictor Oops, for a moment I forgot that Tails is available in Sonic CD (Xbox 360) and I have actually played as him, I don't know what I was thinking. By the way, it would be great to have that Seeeeeeegaaaaa intro again, my favourite one, not the Mega Drive one but the remastered version.

When I was younger I was with a friend and I made fun of the girlie Nintendo DS games at a store, not just because of that but because they were shallow and... kind of bad. It was a very innocent thing to do but a younger girl was browsing those games and looked at me kind of disappointed. I know what you mean. I am somewhat critical but I try to be respectful and friendly. We can still say our opinion but also be kind as we are 😉.

@Banjo- Thank you for sharing that story, very easy mistake to make, you weren't being mean on purpose, but I can see that you learned a good lesson there. Whilst as a long term game fan I hate cynical shovelware and exploiting young kids love for a character or brand to sell them bad games, on the other hand I've had young children and can see how those games might actually be the thing that makes a young child want to start playing games and learning about them. I certainly played my fair share of Barbie, Hello Kitty and Dora the Explorer games with my youngest, and while they obviously weren't going to win Game of the Year, they were harmless, it was a fun shared experience which lead to them wanting to try other games and learning about the ones that I like.

The older I've gotten, I think the more I've become aware of being as non-judgemental as possible and how life is actually pretty difficult for everyone, and whatever makes someone happy, I should be glad for them, and not seek to take it away from them. Just because I don't like something doesn't mean its bad, necessarily.

But also, once I internalised those feelings, I have become more curious - if someone else thinks something I disagree with, I become interested why they think that, and if it could change my mind, or at least help me understand - sometimes I get a new understanding of the thing itself, and always I get a new understanding of the person I'm speaking to.

For example, if someone likes something I don't, I won't say they are wrong, but I may ask them what it is about it that they like, starting a conversation, rather than alienating them. I find this actually makes people feel happy to describe and share what they like and feel seen and heard. I can give them that without having to necessarily agree with them.

I'm certainly not perfect, sometimes I make mistakes - just the other day on this website I was really dismissive and critical of the Playstation Classic mini console. I didn't think twice about it as in my experience, it was a universally disliked device. But then I noticed that there was a user who owned the console and really liked it, and seemed sad, or at least confused that everyone was insulting the thing they liked, and they didn't understand why. I felt bad that rather than describing my problems with the device, I had just insulted it. I apologised, and explained why I didn't like it, but thought it was cool that they had fun with it, and we ended up having a really nice conversation about our shared love for Playstation games

My partner is into certain sports and genres of anime that are not things that I would have ever been interested in watching before I met her, but because I'm interested in what makes her happy, I asked her to explain and show them to me, and teach me why she thinks they are cool. Now I have new found respect for things I'd never have experienced otherwise, and now we have new shared interests and things we can share together.

Apologies if all that sounds obvious, but it seems many people online (not you!), especially these days, get really tribal about picking "us vs them" kind of sides and really hating on people that disagree with them, rather than trying to find a common ground. It's bad enough when people do it about politics or beliefs or identities, but seems even sillier to do it over something like videogames, movies or music. At the end of the day, people have more in common than they have differences, and I like making friends not enemies

@Banjo- Until we hear more official confirmation, or fans rip the engine apart on day 3 after completing the entire collection it's hard, if not impossible to say what is being used for the entire collection. As much as I'd like 5U to be backwards compatible, we'll know for sure around June 23rd.

@samuelvictor Thanks for sharing your own story. I didn't see her until I had spoken so the thing I learnt is look around first LOL. I usually get along with people because I also prefer making friends and not enemies. And, as you said, nothing wrong with those games even if they can objectively be a bit of cash grab because somebody (no matter age or sex) might enjoy them. Somebody might be happy playing with a stick and that's also perfectly fine (and ecological).

But also, once I internalised those feelings, I have become more curious - if someone else thinks something I disagree with, I become interested why they think that, and if it could change my mind, or at least help me understand - sometimes I get a new understanding of the thing itself, and always I get a new understanding of the person I'm speaking to.

Same here but that's only possible if the other person is also friendly or at least respectful and communicative. If not, instead of wasting my time, I'd rather ignore them.

It's bad enough when people do it about politics or beliefs or identities, but seems even sillier to do it over something like videogames, movies or music.

Right but as somebody told me here, some people like a certain religious guy here on NL are much more aggressive about video games than about religion itself so some are absolutely bonkers. Fortunately, they are the small minority and most people are reasonable 😁.

I don't want to sound negative! I agree with you 100%, just explaining what the exceptions might be and also curious about your opinion and how do you deal with all that here and in the real world.

@Banjo- Hi mate, sorry, I really thought I'd replied to this back when you sent it. Evidently my post didn't send, perhaps an internet issue. I was going back through older Sonic related discussions trying to find a comment someone made and randomly noticed that my reply to you wasn't here.

Essentially, I completely agree with you! My post was mostly referring to how I deal with people I disagree with who treat me disrespectfully IRL, rather than online. As you said, its often easier to ignore things online, as otherwise you just waste lots of time and energy on someone who's never going to change their mind anyway, and might be saying things just to wind you up for sport.

On this particular site, the only reason I've taken time to reply in detail to a few people who have been combative is not really to change their mind but so that other people can see the information in my posts and get a fuller picture and make up their own minds. But even then, it often isn't worth it. But I certainly don't get angry or upset. Life's too short

@samuelvictor I really believe that we both have done an excellent job clarifying everything surrounding Sonic Origins. The marketing has been a mess, not just the unnecessary editions and the way they illustrated them, changed one day later, but also when the reveal trailer showed 4:3 emulation footage. I think that people are making a lot of noise but once it has been released, this must be recognised as one of the most notable video games compilations in history, not because of the quantity but because of the quality.

@Banjo- Thanks mate. Yeah its been a shambles really. I reckon Sega should hire us for marketting! lol Katie does a great job on the social media side and doing the monthly live streams, but she can only say what she is allowed to say, and won't have much if any power to see things before hand and advise against obvious mistakes or mishaps.